Ignatius . . . to the church also which holds the presidency, in the location of the country of the Romans, worthy of God, worthy of honor, worthy of blessing, worthy of praise, worthy of success, worthy of sanctification, and, because you hold the presidency in love, named after Christ and named after the Father. Ignatius of Antioch Letter to the Romans 1:1
If anyone disobey the things which have been said by him [God] through us [i.e., that you must reinstate your leaders], let them know that they will involve themselves in transgression and in no small danger. . . . You will afford us joy and gladness if being obedient to the things which we have written through the Holy Spirit, you will root out the wicked passion of jealousy. Pope St. Clement
By pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition. St. Irenaeus Against Heresies 3:3:2
Indeed, the others were also what Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. So too, all [the apostles] are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church? St. Cyprian of Carthage The Unity of the Catholic Church
Cyprian to Antonian, his brother. Greeting … You wrote … that I should forward a copy of the same letter to our colleague [Pope] Cornelius, so that, laying aside all anxiety, he might at once know that you held communion with him, that is, with the Catholic Church. St. Cyprian of Carthage Letters 55
If some bishop be deposed by the judgment of the bishops sitting in the neighborhood, and if he declare that he will seek further redress, another should not be appointed to his see until the bishop of Rome can be acquainted with the case and render a judgment. Council of Sardica Canon 4
Are you ignorant that the custom has been to write first to us and then for a just decision to be passed from this place [Rome]? If, then, any such suspicion rested upon the bishop there [Athanasius of Alexandria], notice of it ought to have been written to the church here. But now, after having done as they pleased, they want to obtain our concurrence, although we never condemned him. Not thus are the constitutions of Paul, not thus the traditions of the Fathers. This is another form of procedure, and a novel practice. … What I write about this is for the common good. For what we have heard from the blessed apostle Peter, these things I signify to you. Pope Julius I in Athanasius, Apology Against the Arians 20-35
In the city of Rome the episcopal chair was given first to Peter; the chair in which Peter sat, the same who was head. that is why he is also called Cephas (Rock)of all the apostles, the one chair in which unity is maintained by all. Neither do the apostles proceed individually on their own, and anyone who would [presume to] set up another chair in opposition to that single chair would, by that very fact, be a schismatic and a sinner. . . . Recall, then, the origins of your chair, those of you who wish to claim for yourselves the title of holy Church. Optatus of Milevus The Schism of the Donatists 2:2
Peter, that Leader of the choir, that Mouth of the rest of the Apostles, that Head of the brotherhood, that one set over the entire universe, that Foundation of the Church. (St. John Chrysostom Chrys. In illud hoc Scitote)
I follow no leader but Christ and join in communion with none but your blessedness [Pope Damasus I], that is, with the chair of Peter. I know that this is the rock on which the Church has been built. Whoever eats the Lamb outside this house is profane. Anyone who is not in the ark of Noah will perish when the flood prevails. St. Jerome Letters 15:2
Likewise it is decreed . . . that it ought to be announced that . . . the holy Roman Church has been placed at the forefront not by the conciliar decisions of other churches, but has received the primacy by the evangelic voice of our Lord and Savior, who says: “You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it; and I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you shall have bound on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you shall have loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven” [Matt. 16:18?19]. The first see, therefore, is that of Peter the apostle, that of the Roman Church, which has neither stain nor blemish nor anything like it. Pope Damasus I
The church here is split into three parts, each eager to seize me for its own. . . . Meanwhile I keep crying, He that is joined to the chair of Peter is accepted by me! . . . Therefore, I implore your blessedness [Pope Damasus I] . . . tell me by letter with whom it is that I should communicate in Syria. St. Jerome Letters 16:2
There are many other things which rightly keep me in the bosom of the Catholic Church. The succession of priests keep me, from the very seat of the apostle Peter (to whom the Lord after his resurrection gave charge to feed his sheep) down to the present episcopate [of Pope Siricius]. St. Augustine Against Mani
On this matter of the Pelagians] two councils have already been sent to the Apostolic See [the bishop of Rome], and from there rescripts too have come. The matter is at an end; would that the error too might be at an end! St. Augustine Sermons 131:10
The churches shall not make any ordinances against the opinion of the bishop of Rome. Socrates Scholasticus The Ecclesiastical History
If Paul, the herald of the truth, the trumpet of the Holy Spirit, hastened to the great Peter, to convey from him the solution to those in Antioch, who were at issue about living under the law, how much more do we, poor and humble, run to the Apostolic Throne (Rome) to receive from you (Pope Leo) healing for wounds of the the Churches. For it pertains to you to have primacy in all things; for your throne is adorned with many prerogatives. St. Theodoret, Bishop of Cyrus in Syria Epistle Leoni
That great man, the disciple of disciples, that master among masters, who wielding the government of the Roman Church possessed the principle authority in faith and in priesthood. Tell us, therefore, we beg of you, Peter, prince of Apostles, tell us how the Churches must believe in God. St. John Cassian
And withal, to show him that he must thenceforward have confidence, as the denial was done away with, He puts into his hands the presidency over the brethren. And He brings not forward the denial, nor reproches him with what had past, but says, ‘If you love me, preside over the brethren, …and the third time He gives him the same injunction, showing what a price He sets the presidency over His own sheep. And if one should say, ‘How then did James receive the throne of Jerusalem?,’ this I would answer that He appointed this man (Peter) teacher, not of that throne, but of the whole world. St. John Chrysostom
I therefore beseech your holiness to persuade the most holy and blessed bishop (Pope Leo) to use his Apostolic power, and to order me to hasten to your Council. For that most holy throne (Rome) has the sovereignty over the churches throughout the universe on many grounds. St. Theodoret, Bishop of Cyrus in Syria Epistle Leoni
Bishop Paschasinus, guardian of the Apostolic See, stood in the midst [of the Council Fathers] and said, : We received directions at the hands of the most blessed and apostolic bishop of the Roman city [Pope Leo I], who is the head of all the churches, which directions say that Dioscorus is not to be allowed to sit in the [present] assembly, but that if he should attempt to take his seat, he is to be cast out. This instruction we must carry out. Council of Chalcedon Acts of the Council, Session 1
Macedonius declared, when desired by the Emperor Anastasius to condemn the Council of Chalcedon, that ‘such a step without an Ecumenical Synod presided over by the Pope of Rome is impossible.’ Macedonius, Patriarch of Constantinople Patr. Graec
I accept all his [the pope’s] letters and teachings as proceeding from the mouth of Peter the Coryphaeus, and I kiss them and salute them and embrace them with all my soul … I recognize the latter as definitions of Peter and the former as those of Mark, and besides, all the heaven-taught teachings of all the chosen mystagogues of our Catholic Church. St. Sophronius, Patriarch of Jerusalem
If the Roman See recognizes Pyrrhus to be not only a reprobate but a heretic, it is certainly plain that everyone who anathematizes those who have rejected Pyrrhus also anathematizes the See of Rome, that is, he anathematizes the Catholic Church. I need hardly add that he excommunicates himself also, if indeed he is in communion with the Roman See and the Catholic Church of God …
Let him hasten before all things to satisfy the Roman See, for if it is satisfied, all will agree in calling him pious and orthodox. For he only speaks in vain who… does not satisfy and implore the blessed Pope of the most holy Catholic Church of the Romans, that is, the Apostolic See, which is from the incarnate of the Son of God Himself, and also [from] all the holy synods, according to the holy canons and definitions, has received universal and surpreme dominion, authority, and power of binding and loosing over all the holy churches of God throughout the whole world. St. Maximus the Confessor
She is subject to no writings or issues in synodical documents, on account of the eminence of her pontificate… even as in all these things all are equally subject to her [the Church of Rome] according to sacerodotal law. And so when, without fear, but with all holy and becoming confidence, those ministers [the popes] are of the truly firm and immovable rock, that is of the most great and Apostolic Church of Rome. ….
The extremities of the earth, and everyone in every part of it who purely and rightly confess the Lord, look directly towards the Most Holy Roman Church and her confession and faith, as to a sun of unfailing light awaiting from her the brilliant radiance of the sacred dogmas of our Fathers, according to that which the inspired and holy Councils have stainlessly and piously decreed. St. Maximus the Confessor
The Pope of Rome, the head of the Christian priesthood, whom in Peter, the Lord commanded to confirm his brethren. John VI, Patriarch of Constantinople
I witness now before God and men, they [the Iconcoclasts] have torn themselves away from the Body of Christ, from the Surpreme See [Rome], in which Christ placed the keys of the Faith, against which the gates of hell (I mean the mouth of heretics) have not prevailed, and never will until the Consummation, according to the promise of Him Who cannot lie. Let the blessed and Apostolic Paschal [Pope St. Paschal I] rejoice therefore, for he has fulfilled the work of Peter. St. Theodore the Studite of Constantinople
(Link to More Quotes from the Fathers)
“John 1:41-42: ”He findeth first his brother Simon, and saith to him: We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ. And he brought him to Jesus. And Jesus looking upon him, said: Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is interpreted Peter.” |
For the above Scripture to imply that Simon’s new name was meant to be understood as “small stone,” the writer would use the Latin word “calculus” which means “small stone.” However, the Scripture explicitly states that “Cephas” is interpreted as “Peter.” “Peter” means “rock” in Latin.
The translation of Matthew’s Gospel into Greek named Simon “Petros” rather than “petra” because “petra” is a feminine noun and unsuitable for a man’s name. The translator had no problem substituting the masculine form “Petros” because in Koine Greek, which was the dialect in use at the time of the New Testament, “petra” and “petros” both meant the same thing, “rock.”
“Petros” and “petras” meant “small stone” and “large rock” in some ancient Greek poetry, centuries before the time of Christ, but that distinction had disappeared from the language by the time Matthew’s Gospel was rendered in Greek. As Greek scholars—even non-Catholic ones—admit, the words “petros” and “petra” were synonyms in first century Greek.
The difference between “petros” and “petras” can only be found in Attic Greek, but the New Testament was written in Koine Greek—an entirely different dialect. In Koine Greek, both “petros” and “petra” simply meant “rock.” If Jesus had wanted to call Simon a small stone, the translation of Christ’s Aramaic into Greek would have been “lithos,” which means “small stone” in Koine Greek. (Wiki Post)
Ought that not to be “What say the Fathers?” “Fathers” is a plural noun and so requires a plural verb, but “saith” is singular. If one is going go out of one’s way to use archaic language—and it has its place—it is best to get it right, since in such a case an error is much more egregious than if one were using everyday language. This just gives ammunition for ridicule to those who oppose the substance of what you are trying to say.
Uh, “going to go.” Hoist—a bit—on my own petard.
Grammaticus, most of us aren’t that smart, so ain’t gonna matter, no ways anyhow I reckon.
Gol durn it, ken88, you’s right. Most of us ain’t that smart. But some of us is. And the some of the rest of us would like to aim a bit higher. And it obviously does matter, at least to a few.
Indeed. And the Orthodox would not disagree with any of this…
The question is in what sense does ‘primacy’ play out, especially in light of ‘concilarity?’
Cheers,
Thurs.
Long live the Pope of Rome!!!
Ken88, very well done. Thanks for bringing these all together in one place.
Note also that at the Council of Chalcedon, it seems the bishops affirmed the idea of Papal Primacy to Leo and the popes following him as the rightful successors to Peter when they said, “What Leo believes we all believe, anathema to him who believes anything else. Peter has spoken through the mouth of Leo.”
Great collection and a point well made!
Thank you guys.
Thursday: If they do support what the Fathers say, then why are they still so obstinate? Some of the quotes above show how downright frightening some of the Fathers thought being out of union with Rome was. Why not “err” on the side of Unity, instead of schism, caesaropapism, pride, and nationalism?
Ken88 – We are a Catholic high school in Kansas City Missouri. We noticed on one of your sites that you have a holy card/picture of St. Pius X surrounded by children who are making their first communion. We love that picture, and we would like to purchase holy cards with that picture to send to our feeder grade school’s second graders who are making their first communion this Spring, with a congratulatory note to them from our principal. Can you tell me where you got the image/picture — we have not had any luck finding the holy card at any of the Catholic bookstores here in Kansas City. Can you help us? My email address is malitras@stpiusxhs-kc.com
Ken88:
Nobody’s contesting the sinfulness of those in the East on matters. The reason they are out of communion with the Holy Father is due to the nature of primacy as understood by the West (i.e., taking Leo’s Tome to another level [especially by Innocent III’s day])–or the matter of universal jurisdiction (as opposed to conciliarity and authocephaly)–the filioque heresy (which is not only Christological, but also Triadological, and was not universally received), and the exact nature of ex cathedra. Primus inter pares has been usurped by Unam Sanctum.
The question I have, as an Anglican, is why should I believe what appear to be assumptions made on the part of Rome of itself, when the East vehemently disagrees (and always has, even long before 1054). Claiming that the Church=Pope (roughly speaking, of course) is not convincing to me–or the East–for their is no evidence that this is a valid development (besides that Rome claims it is). In other words, it is circular reasoning.
I would love to be convinced of Rome’s position on these matters for it would make my life a whole lot easier (being Anglican and all), but until (or if) this happens, here I remain.
Thurs.
The East has always been jealous of Rome. Rome’s place has no parallel. Rome intervened in the affairs of Corinth. How can that be without jurisdiction? Corinth was certainly not under Rome’s regional jurisdiction (as a Patriarchate)–only Rome’s universal jurisdiction.
The East does recognize that Rome can act as a court of appeal. But how can it be a court of appeal if it doesn’t have jurisdiction? What good is court without jurisdiction?
Filioque? That is an easy one. One can say:
Spirit of God (Father)
Spirit of Christ (Son)
Son of God (Father)
But one cannot say:
Christ of the Spirit
God of the Spirit
God of Christ
The East’s only argument on the Filioque is that they were not consulted, and so their feelings were hurt. Filioque has not been received in the East, but it will be one day. Because the filioque is just good sensible theology.
No, the East’s problems with the West are primarily political, not theological.
Thank you Father
That’s why they are so eager for reunion, right?
Just because one does something does not make it right.
Intercommunion is not the same thing as universal jurisdiction.
Have you ever read the proceedings of the 8th Ecumenical Council (the Photian one, not the Nicholation one that was rejected)? Have you ever read Photias’ *Mystogogy* (I am not allowed to post a link to it on this blog)?
Try selling this to an Orthodox bishop and see what his response is. I’m sure it will include that the filioque is a Christological and Triadological heresy, as well as the fact that it is not catholic (conciliar).
I’m sorry, but this just simply not fair to history or current events. Pejorative brush-asides of major disagreements are not helpful nor do they help people like me who are searching out the truth.
Alright no more. Picture blog, not polemical. Hopefully all schism’s will die out, and everybody will be back where they started, where they belong: with Rome.
Shutting down comments on this post
[…] November 16, 2007 by ken88 Did you know? That JPII was given a Papal Tiara by the Hungarians in 1981? Kind of a mix between the older ones, and Paul VI’s. Too bad he didn’t wear it! (Big hat tip to Trad Cath83). Also: More did you know? […]
None of the quotes of the aforementioned fathers demonstrate a universal Jurisdiction or infallibility. Clement was merely warning the Corinthinans to heed GOd, not to heed HIMSELF! One Church, One Body, One Head: Christ.
Of the Stewardship: Deacons
Of the Ministry: Priests
Of the Headship: Bishops.
AS Per Ignatius of Antioch.
One Nature of God the Word Incarnate. One being WHo is GOd and man without COnfusion, Change mixture or Division. His flesh as Much of Himself as HIs divinity.
God was Crucified for us.
If the Filioque is true, and the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the SOn, then the SPirit is DIvided between the SOn and Father. Pneumatological Subordinationism, Christological Modalism with the Father, and Bitheism if Christ is a distinct principle from the Father.
READ CHURCH HISTORY!
Follow Rome inasmuch as she is Orthodox. Depart from her when her PAtriarch speaks of Being the Sole Vicar of Christ. Such words are the precursor of Antichrist.
All of the political East vs. West aside…would love to see some captions on the pics…especially the one with J23 presiding at what appears to be an Eastern Rite Liturgy.