(Orthodox church in Petresti, Romania with a mural of JPII, George Bush Sr., and Gorbachev!)
In Bucharest I highlighted the fact that in Romania, too, you suffered together: “The communist regime suppressed the Church of the Byzantine-Romanian rite united with Rome and persecuted Bishops and priests, men and women religious and lay people, many of whom paid with blood for their fidelity to Christ…. I would also like to give due recognition to the members of the Romanian Orthodox Church and of other Churches and religious communities who suffered similar persecutions and grave restrictions. Death united our brothers and sisters in faith in the heroic witness of martyrdom: they have left us an unforgettable lesson of love for Christ and his Church” John Paul II: The Church in Romania
I like the work that JPII brought about to help destroy communism but his statement here:
“I would also like to give due recognition to the members of the Romanian Orthodox Church and of other Churches and religious communities who suffered similar persecutions and grave restrictions. Death united our brothers and sisters in faith in the heroic witness of martyrdom”
Is he saying that schismatics are martyrs? If so this is at odds with Catholic teaching (sorry to nit pick at this).
Er… none of the people accused of militant atheism are communists AND if you wanted to hit antitheism, you are a century too late- it would be the French revolution.
Whoops, you’re right. I read the other part too quickly. My mind was on the JPII quote. Sorry.
Sam,
Er… Communism wasn’t militant atheism? Yes, the French Revolution got the ball rolling, but in the 20th Century the most egregious and widespread attack on Christianity came from Marxism. Perhaps I should have named it “in the 20th century”.
Poor people. Ignorance is the worst.
You’ve erroneously conflated communism with atheism. If you can, demonstrate how communism is a direct outgrowth of atheism, then maybe you’ll have a case. I haven’t seen it made in my years of studying communism.
Just remember, however, that there were and are Christian communists. Ever heard of liberation theology?
Liberation Theology is an Satanic materialistic Heresy that calls itself “christian”, just as all the heretics throughout history have perversely insisted on referring to themselves as “christians”. Some of the Bishops down in S. America have covered themselves in eternal shame pushing this perversion.
“Christian communists”, no such thing, just deluded people. Like driving East to go West.
Ken,
Are you sure that’s an Orthodox church and not Greek Rite Catholic? It would be highly irregular for an Orthodox church building to have an icon of a post-schism Roman Pope on its walls. Such is normally reserved for saints. While many Orthodox (including me) have a high opinion of the late Pope we do not commemorate the heterodox in our liturgies or in icons.
Orthodoxy does not presume to know what goes on outside The Church. It may well be that +John Paul II was a saint. But he was not Orthodox and as such we would not commemorate him.
Re # 1
Alexander Verbum,
All of the Roman Catholic Popes going back at least to Pius X have expressly authorized the commemoration of Orthodox saints and their commemoration by the Uniate churches. Popes Pius X and Pius XII approved Unitae church calendars which commemorate almost all of the recognized saints of the Orthodox church except St. Mark of Ephesus and I believe St. Photias the Great.
This does strike me as an odd practice given the canons and traditional discipline of the ancient Church. However Rome has dispensed with so much of the historic discipline of the undivided Church that this may be just another change.
ICXC
John
Ad Orientem, I thought so too, but where I found the pics it said Orthodox. But, then again, it looks like the mural is in a sort of vestuble, and not in the main body of the church.
Just found out is is indeed an Orthodox church: http://nektarios.home.comcast.net/~nektarios/1508.html (scroll down to the 8th article).
Ken,
I just read that article and I find it somewhat disturbing.
A new Orthodox church in Romania’s mountainous Transylvania features some strikingly untraditional icons — portraying Pope John Paul, former U.S. President George Bush and ex-Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev.
“The three should have been proposed for sanctification for changing the course of the history, like Constantine the Great, the first Christian Roman emperor who became a famous saint,” argues Alexandru Coman, the priest in the village of Petresti.
This individual appears to be somewhat deficient in his understanding of the Orthodox faith. First we do not propose living persons (2 of those represented are still alive) for sainthood. None are or were Orthodox. And at least one is I believe, an avowed atheist! In Orthodoxy the narthex is still part of the church and the canons governing church decor still apply.
While a layman might be excused out of ignorance for expressing such an opinion, the priest should have known better. And wherever is their bishop? I wonder if their bishop is the same fellow who communed recently at a uniate Mass and is facing discipline from the Holy Synod? This is all frankly rather scandalous.
ICXC
John
We all have our loose canons I guess! I thought it looked strange (Catholic or Orthodox). I could have understood JPII in a Catholic vestuble, but Bush and Gorbachev?
I believe the man with the crown would be the bishop, correct?
Indeed. The mitered cleric is a bishop, probably the one for the diocese. How sad.
ICXC
John
ken88,
So if someone calls themselves a christian, they cannot be also a communist?
In any case, I notice you haven’t taken up the challenge to demonstrate how communism is a direct outgrowth of atheism. Either demonstrate this, or retract your comments.
Look Rob, I don’t have the time & energy to prove history, and the obvious. I’m not retracting nothing, you don’t like the blog, don’t look.
Communism was, is, and always will be be Satanic, anti-Christ and defacto atheist. 100 million corpses are left at the feet of communism, explain that.
Ad Orientem wrote:
All of the Roman Catholic Popes going back at least to Pius X have expressly authorized the commemoration of Orthodox saints and their commemoration by the Uniate churches. Popes Pius X and Pius XII approved Unitae church calendars which commemorate almost all of the recognized saints of the Orthodox church except St. Mark of Ephesus and I believe St. Photias the Great.
This does strike me as an odd practice given the canons and traditional discipline of the ancient Church. However Rome has dispensed with so much of the historic discipline of the undivided Church that this may be just another change.
I’ll have to investigate your information because I am not aware of it.
Uniate churches are in communion with Rome correct? Then perhaps those saints listed not formally schismatic (as in certain times in the past or something). If so this would make sense. If not then these popes were wrong in doing this because it contradicts Catholic teaching.
ken88: “Liberation Theology is an Satanic materialistic Heresy that calls itself “christian”, just as all the heretics throughout history have perversely insisted on referring to themselves as “christians”. Some of the Bishops down in S. America have covered themselves in eternal shame pushing this perversion. ”
Yes, this is true. ken88 you read my mind because I also believe with all my heart that “Liberation Theology” is a satanic and materialistic heresy.
And I will add that it is an anti-christian and anti-catholic sect that is embedded deep in the clergy. It is satanic because it is a subversive group that seeks to destroy the catholic church from within.
There cannot be any toleration with this group. Then need to be expurgated from the Catholic Church.
JPII failed to this and it tolerated their activities.
That’s my point, ken. It is not history. Pick up any history book of the Soviet Union or communism and you’ll see. Christians are the source of these claims, not historians.
Communism is satanic, anti-christ and de facto atheist? You know even less about communism than I thought.
Humboldt, JPII, while not destroying it, still did speak out against it. There is a picture (I will try to find) of JPII publicly scolding a LibTheo priest in S. America (Possiblly Fr. Cardenal)
ken88, for a pope words are surely not enough. Concrete action was required (and I don’t mean a photo op), and in this he failed completely, perhaps because he was too meddled with the politics of Poland.
And the photo op with Cardenal was in 1983, almost five years into JPII’s papacy. He surely must have known the activities of the liberation theology priests since his accesion to the papacy, and he did not do anything. So he supported their activities. Only when the rebellion was openly marxist he then tried to stem them.
Humboldt, I am generally in agreeance with you. Alot of problems were allowed to fester under him.
And the “problems” continue to be tolerated and underhandenly encouraged. Can there be anything more satanic than this?
I hate to feed an apparent troll, but I have to ask:
Huh?
Communism and Christianity are inherently opposed. You cannot be both.
Ignoring all historical evidence of the opposition (which, no, is not limited to Christian authors), we can simply point out that Communism (if you believe its own self-description) thinks that material ‘equality’ is the highest objective, and Christianity thinks that salvation in Christ is the highest objective. For this simple reason, you cannot be a Christian and a communist. Period. Indeed, you have to be a total atheist to believe that the material is more important than the metaphysical.
And, communism has, as Ken pointed out, caused the death of far, far too many people, in the name of making them equal. That sounds pretty satanic to me. It sounds like communism promises liberation and delivers death, which is pretty much the definition of satanic.
Thank you Subject
Robert,
You should really try peddling your bizarre revisionist history somewhere else. There is the testimony of millions martyrs in Russia alone against the evils of communism. And for the record I have an MA in history. Communism is right where it belongs, which is coincidentally where Ronald Reagan predicted it would end up. On the ash heap of history.,
ICXC NIKA
John
Thank you for the common sense answer Ad Orientem.
Robert, are your the same Robert that went nutty after I posted about the sin of Sodomy a few months back?
Ken,
I am a historian by academic training though not profession. And I run into weird people like this periodically. They are the historian’s equivalent to the flat earth society. His views are rather akin to arguing that the Nazis were not really anti-Semites. In fact Holocaust denial would be a very good equivalent to his historiography. Another example would be un-reconstructed Southerners who argue for the Confederacy’s cause (they go off he rails when they start trying to argue that slavery had nothing to do with the war).
ICXC
John